David's Forum
Register Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 1 of 2      1   2   Next
theranch

Registered:
Posts: 100
Reply with quote  #1 
I am sure I am going to be real embarrassed once I get the answer to this one, but hey, Im a man and not scared to ask questions...lol

OK, here is my problem.  Just got my H&R 357 max back from David and love shooting it.  I have only tried the 158 Rem. jsp with Winchester 296 and so far, not getting good groups (Im assuming it is due to the twist rate of my H&R).  So, I have got my hands on some Hornady .358 180 gr. SP SSP and trying to load some of these up with so AA1680, but have ran into a problem. These bullets are difficult to seat in my 357 max brass which is causing the tip to mushroom.  My dies are Lee 357 mag dies. Only about 2 years of reloading experience, so I am still learning everytime I sit down at the bench.  TIA for any and all suggestions.

theranch  
DAVIDWHITE

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 3,970
Reply with quote  #2 
With AA1680 powder and those 180 gr. bullets, you run out of case capacity pretty quick, especially when you start working around the max listed loads in the reloading manuals. 1680 is a bulky powder and takes up a lot of space...

With your dies and chosen bullets, if you are crunching the bullet on top of the powder charge, that could be the reason your bullet tip is deforming...

Winchester 296 is also an excellent powder when loading the Hornady 180 gr. SSP in the H&R's rechambered to the 357 Maximum....

DAVID

__________________
David and Brenda White 

By HIS stripes, we are healed...

God Bless  <")))><

e-mail me at: precisionriflesmith@gmail.com

Shop phone: (918) 576-3217
theranch

Registered:
Posts: 100
Reply with quote  #3 
Thanks David!  The problem of "crunching" the bullets happens without any powder charge.  It is like the bullet is too big for the case....Also, as far as mushrooming the end, this may be a case of the bullet being to hard to seat and/or the piece inside of the seating/crimping die is rounded as apposed to the 35 whelen dies that I usually use to seat these bullets.  The one that I have in my 35 whelen set is shaped to contact down on the bullet a little past the lead tip (which keeps it from crunching the lead).

I will list the order of steps and maybe you can tell me what I am doing wrong or any unecessary steps I am performing.
-Take new remington 357 max brass and run it through the resizing/decapper die.
-install primer
-Run brass through expander die (rolls edges out just a little)
-Charge with desired powder
-ATTEMPT to seat and crimp bullet with my Lee carbide 357 mag/357 max 3 piece dies set.

It just really seems like the brass is too small to accept the .358 bullet. 

Thanks for taking the time to help.  Please bare with me as I try to explain (probably using wrong termonolgy)...BTW, not sure of the exact twist on this barrel, but thing it is somewhere around 1:16
RedDirt

Registered:
Posts: 74
Reply with quote  #4 

Ranch,

It sounds like you came up with a possible reason for the damaged bullet tips when you use your 357 Mag seating die.  The seating stem is designed to seat bullets that would normally be loaded in 38 Special or 357 Mag.  I had the same problem with my RCBS die set and had to change the seating stem
to one that was made for pointed bullets.  Will the seating stem from your Whelen die set work in your pistol die set?

RedDirt
theranch

Registered:
Posts: 100
Reply with quote  #5 
Thanks Reddirt!
I have played with the 35 whelen seating stem a little, but not sure if the die will adjust low enough to seat to the desired depth.  I am working tonight, so cannot go check to be sure.  I was kind of reluctant to start changing parts between dies since I am fairly new to all this reloading.  What you say makes good since, so I will tinker with it tomorrow when I get home. 

Next question.  I am assuming that since the .358 is a little bigger bullet, that it will fit tighter in the casing, but shouldnt cause any safety issues...???

One more question...is it in the norm (or necessary) to use the expander die when using the .358 bullets?

TIA
DAVIDWHITE

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 3,970
Reply with quote  #6 
You need to flare the case mouth when using any bullet...

Do you seat the bullets in one operation and then crimp or do you do both operations at the same time?

The .001 difference in bullets, whether .357 or .358 does NOT cause any safety issues. Some barrels will usually prefer one diameter over the other and with other barrels, it makes no difference...

I will modify your 357 bullet seating stem for you if you want me to - no charge....

DAVID

__________________
David and Brenda White 

By HIS stripes, we are healed...

God Bless  <")))><

e-mail me at: precisionriflesmith@gmail.com

Shop phone: (918) 576-3217
theranch

Registered:
Posts: 100
Reply with quote  #7 
I seat and crimp in one operation.

Thanks for the safety reassurance on the .357 vs .358

Also, thanks on the offer on  modifying my seating stem.  I am going to give the 35 whelen stem a try.  If that does not work, I will take you up on the offer.

Thanks for all the hlep.....BTW, love the way this 357 max shoots (lack of recoil and the crisp trigger you worked for me)...I know it will be a shooter once I figure out what it likes...
vernw

Registered:
Posts: 309
Reply with quote  #8 
Yep, your problem is definitely the seating stem on those 357 Mag dies, been there and done that. The solution is simple, you just need a seating plug/stem for spitzer type bullets (or let David fix yours). The 357 Mag dies are designed for flatter bullets and that's why they a crushing your exposed soft lead bullet points. A stem from a 35 Remington works well, as should your Whelen stem, too.

As for your loads, the 1680 works well for medium velocity loads for the 180 gr bullets. I spoke with their factory tech guy. He said you will not be able to get enough 1680 in a Max case to get the highest velocity or to develop excessive pressures, either. I proved him right and shifted to 296 powder. Much better!!

As for bullets, I've settled on the Hornady 140 gr FTX bullets. Great accuracy in the/my H&R 1-20" twist Max David built for me and 2550+ fps is easily achieved, more if you push it just a tad. Brass life may suffer over 2500 fps though.

Your mileage may vary, of course. ;-)

__________________
Old Phat Phart deer hunter and muscle car lover
theranch

Registered:
Posts: 100
Reply with quote  #9 

AWESOME...thanks so much....David, my seating stem is on the way...thanks a TON

Dinny

Registered:
Posts: 151
Reply with quote  #10 
I also found that the seating plug could be altered at home to make it work nicely. Here's what I did:
1. Make more room inside the seating stem with a Dremel tool
2. Clean it thoroughly
3. Mix some JB Weld and place inside the seating plug
4. Make a dummy round with the pointed bullet heavily crimped
5. Coat the bullet and first 1/2" of brass with release agent
6. Once the release agent is dry, place the dummy round inside the plug
7. Wipe away any excess that is squeezed out
8. Let dry overnight with bullet/round in place (keep them straight)
9. Next day, remove the dummy round and voila, the seating plug is fitted to your pointy bullet**

** some sanding may be required to fit the seating stem back inside your die

I get very acceptable accuracy with the 180gr SS-PB and AA1680, velocity is modest at 2000fps from my 18" Handi rifle barrel. 

__________________
Thanks, Dinny
theranch

Registered:
Posts: 100
Reply with quote  #11 

Thanks Dinny, great info=-)

broomjm

Registered:
Posts: 139
Reply with quote  #12 
I discovered the same problem when working with my 358GNR cartridge...it was smashing the gummy-tips flat on my 200gr FTX bullets!  I was really embarrassed when I called Hornady about the problem only to have the technician point out that my dies CAME WITH both seating dies. 

You might also try some Hodgdon Li'l Gun in your 357Max. 

DAVIDWHITE

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 3,970
Reply with quote  #13 
Darra,

your bullet seating stem has been modified and I got it back in the mail, headed your way as of this morning...

I seated one bullet and repolished the seating stem to make it even smoother...



These pictures show your bullet seating stem on the left after modification and the one on the right shows what it looked like as it came from the factory...









DAVID

__________________
David and Brenda White 

By HIS stripes, we are healed...

God Bless  <")))><

e-mail me at: precisionriflesmith@gmail.com

Shop phone: (918) 576-3217
theranch

Registered:
Posts: 100
Reply with quote  #14 

Thank YOU VERY Much!!!!!

theranch

Registered:
Posts: 100
Reply with quote  #15 
got back today...loaded some with 25-27 grain of 1680 shooting Hornady 180 grain bullets.  27gr shoots best groups so far.  I will do a little more work tomorrow to find the best load...will post results

BTW, your die mod works FANTASTIC!  thanks again
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.